Focus On Talents: From Single Mom to Transformative Worldwide Advocate - Cathlene Miner’s Inspiring Story

🎙️ Welcome to another episode of Pathways with Amber Stitt! Today, Amber sits down with the inspiring Cathlene Miner, a multifaceted entrepreneur and fitness expert known for her relentless determination and positive mindset.  

👩‍👧‍👦 A co-founder of multiple businesses and tireless advocate for positive self-perception, Cathlene shares her journey from being a working single mom to a successful entrepreneur, all while maintaining her commitment to uplifting others. 

 🏋️‍♀️ In this episode, you'll discover how Cathlene, a former single mom and longtime Mayo Clinic employee, overcame personal and professional challenges to build a successful fitness business and impact lives globally.

🙌 Join us as we delve into the impactful work of Hopefull Handbags, the nonprofit Cathlene founded to support survivors of domestic abuse and provide essential resources like water tanks in rural Kenya.

💡 Cathlene also shares insight into her innovative tech startup, TuuZuu, a safe social media platform for kids, and ZZatem, an entrepreneurial social media and blog site for adults.

🎧 Listen in as Cathlene and Amber discuss self-perception, the importance of self-defense, and the evolving landscape of content sharing and social media. Whether you're seeking inspiration to overcome obstacles or eager to learn about empowering communities worldwide, this episode is packed with valuable insights and uplifting stories.

🌟 Key Highlights:

🌱 Hopefull Handbags: Discover the empowering work of this nonprofit, offering virtual workshops, in-person certifications, and life-changing projects in rural Kenya, including rain-harvesting water tanks for schools.

🌱 Long-Term Sustainability: Learn how Hopefull Handbags helps survivors of domestic abuse and creates job opportunities and sustains communities, focusing on self-sufficiency rather than temporary aid.

🌱 Empowering Women: Hear about the support, training, and education provided to women in business, promoting independence and confidence.

🌱 Cathlene's Journey: An inspiring tale of resilience, from her early days juggling jobs, positive mindset practices, to her global fitness business.

🌱 Parenting Challenges: Insights into homeschooling, social media's impact on children, and the need for better safety measures online.

🌱 Innovative Tech Startups: Co-founded by Cathlene, she shares an introduction to TuuZuu a safe and parent-verified platform for kids to share content, learn money management, and foster entrepreneurial spirit. As well as ZZatem which is the social media and blog site for adults.

🔔 Why Listen?

💬 This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom, from self-defense tips and the importance of self-worth to practical advice on navigating the challenges of modern parenting. 

👍🏼 Cathlene's story is relatable and inspiring, offering listeners practical tools for personal growth and community empowerment.

🎥 To watch this episode: https://youtu.be/uTX8S_CmPds

🔗 To Connect with Cathlene:

- www.CathleneMiner.com

- www.TuuZuu.com

- www.ZZatem.com

- Connect with Amber Stitt:

- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amber-stitt-acp-chfc%C2%AE-cltc%C2%AE-clu%C2%AE-gallup%C2%AE-1b186821/

- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amberstitt_

**#PathwaysWithAmberStitt #CathleneMiner #HopefullHandbags #SelfPerception #Empowerment #Parenting #SocialMediaSafety**

Tune in now for an episode filled with powerful stories and actionable advice! 💪✨

Transcript

Amber Stitt [00:00:00]:
Hello and welcome to Pathways. I am your host, Amber Stitt, and today we welcome Cathlene Miner to the show today. Welcome, Cathlene.

Cathlene Miner [00:00:07]:
Hello. Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome.

Amber Stitt [00:00:10]:
So excited I could get with you and talk about a number of things. You are co-founder of a couple businesses, some books. You are also a fitness expert. So there's quite a few things in addition to a globally recognized nonprofit?

Cathlene Miner [00:00:23]:
Absolutely. That's correct.

Amber Stitt [00:00:25]:
So we're going to dive in, unpack quite a bit for the audience today because I want them to know about you, how you got here, and then how to participate in some of this where you talk about advocating for positive self perception. And I think that's part of the journey for you into how you are helping others. And so I want more people to understand that optimistic perspective you have. So can we jump in?

Cathlene Miner [00:00:46]:
Let's do it.

Amber Stitt [00:00:48]:
All right. Because you worked and then you didn't work for a period of time. So there's kind of these stages that you've maybe not fallen into, it was choices, but you were motivated to kind of come out of raising four children after not working for...was it 20 years?

Cathlene Miner [00:01:04]:
Over 20 years, yeah. But I will say after being a working single mom of two children,

Cathlene Miner [00:01:11]:
and then getting remarried, having two more children, becoming a stay at home mom for over 20 years, I will tell you that that was so hard compared to when I was working. I mean, to the point where I worked at the Mayo Clinic. And those of you in the US know about the Mayo Clinic.

Amber Stitt [00:01:30]:
Yep.

Cathlene Miner [00:01:30]:
So I started there when I just turned 19 years old. It was before HIPAA. So I worked my way up the ladder because then they would teach you things nurses did. It was a whole different life back then.

Amber Stitt [00:01:42]:
Right.

Cathlene Miner [00:01:42]:
A whole different world in the medical field, but it was awesome.

Amber Stitt [00:01:44]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:01:45]:
So I was there, and I really, absolutely loved my job. And it's where I met my now husband. And we've been together now for about 25, 26 years. I'm not great with dates... Yeah. I mean, so then I became a stay at home mom. It just made sense, right?

Cathlene Miner [00:02:05]:
I always wanted to become a stay at home mom, but I also liked having my own job because as a woman, and I guess men might feel this way, too, I can't really relate because I'm not one. But, you know, having that paycheck come in, that kind of stuff, I did have to really work on, "Okay, everybody's money's our money." And, you know, mentally, for me, but where I'm going through with this is that I called some of my friends that had left work and went to be a stay at home moms, and I was like, I am so sorry, because I thought, oh, my God, they've got it made. Like, "Come on, what do you do all day?" Yeah. I was like, you've got this made. I mean, when they would call and be tired, I'm like, "I don't even want to hear it."

Cathlene Miner [00:02:48]:
Like, I'm waking up, bringing my kids to daycare, going to work. And at that time, being a single mom, I worked full time at Mayo as a supervisor, and then I worked two other jobs, so I was tired, too. But I'm going to tell you, you can't turn it off when you're a stay at home mom, right?

Amber Stitt [00:03:05]:
Like, there's a brain. Like, you can have adult conversations at work. Well, hopefully it's there, too.

Cathlene Miner [00:03:13]:
But, yeah, in your car on your lunch break, or go take a walk.

Amber Stitt [00:03:18]:
Or the bathroom alone.

Cathlene Miner [00:03:19]:
Right. I mean, those times, I didn't realize how important they were. And also, you're invested emotionally in your kids, so, you know, it's like, yes, I cared about the people that, you know, I had, at certain times, 40 and 50 employees under me, and I cared about them, but it's not the same. I just, you know, block it out. But with your kids, you don't. So, yes, it was a whole different life. And I'm saying that because I feel like I did have a 24/7 job when I was a stay at home mom.

Cathlene Miner [00:03:50]:
But it's in such a different way than when you're actually going into an office and doing things. So I can relate to both sides of that, and neither one of them is easy. You know, it's all a full time thing and takes a lot of work. But that's how I became a stay at home mom. Within that time, I kind of carried on, or I did the fitness portion that I was doing as one of my second or third jobs to make extra money, and that was really a lot of fun. So I was able to do that as a stay at home mom. Also, my kids had a routine. They knew they could come with me sometimes, depending on their ages and where they were.

Cathlene Miner [00:04:26]:
And it's just kind of a thing that's been ingrained in my kids now, too. So my oldest child will be 32 in a few weeks, and then I have a 29 year old, a 19 and an 18 year old, and three grandkids. But it's awesome. But to see the routines that my older kids have now, and my younger kids do, too, they're in college. So it may not be as consistent that I was unintentionally, at first, ingraining in them. But then with my own habits and routines, I guess they figured this is just what you do.

Amber Stitt [00:04:58]:
Yeah. So at what point...you were working in fitness a little bit. When was your breaking point? Not breaking in a bad way, but, "Now it's time. I'm going to found my first business online." When was that point of, you're just like that "A-ha" moment where you go, I have to do this now?

Cathlene Miner [00:05:16]:
Yeah. Gosh. It was in the early 2000's, so... Okay, well, I say that, but now that I look back, my first child was born in 1992. And at that point, I already started having my own business. It's just I was young, and I didn't really register it as a business. Be real. I was just meeting people at the gym, getting clients, meeting them at the gym, and training them at the gym.

Cathlene Miner [00:05:42]:
And back then, too. It seems like it was just yesterday to me, but it wasn't made such a big deal about. So I guess, looking back, I already had a business.

Amber Stitt [00:05:51]:
You were building it.

Cathlene Miner [00:05:52]:
I was building it. I just didn't officially register anything. And then in the early two thousands, remember when Skype came out? Like, Skype came out. And at that point, I lived in North Carolina. I was born and raised in Florida. I'm back here, but we were in North Carolina. And I tell you this because we don't really have basements in Florida.

Amber Stitt [00:06:13]:
Same here in Arizona.

Cathlene Miner [00:06:14]:
Yeah. So I went into my basement, and I had clients from all over the world. We would meet on Skype at 5:30 in the morning, and that's what I was doing. And I even have snapshots still. And when I look back at it, it's so fun because it was so, like I say, starter, but that's what videos were then, right? Like, it's nothing like now. Like what you and I look like. I mean, this was Skype. Most people still had dial up Internet.

Amber Stitt [00:06:43]:
Yes.

Cathlene Miner [00:06:45]:
It was a whole different world. So that's when I really just kept going with it. And then as my younger kids got a little bit older, and I say older, they were probably, like, 5 and 7, I was doing concierge workout training with women. So typically, a lot of older women are just women that just didn't want to go to the gym. And I would take all my stuff or anything I needed, and I would go to their house and work them out. And it was great because my kids could come with me and they would just sit on the side, kind of like my older kids would come to the gym with me and sit on the side. It's like my kids knew that that's what we do. That's just part of life.

Amber Stitt [00:07:23]:
Did they have books with them because they didn't have tablets.

Cathlene Miner [00:07:27]:
No. And they did. They would have coloring.

Amber Stitt [00:07:29]:
It's possible?

Cathlene Miner [00:07:30]:
Absolutely no tablets. It wasn't even, as you know, invented. I guess maybe I just didn't know about them. But not in the 90's. In the early 90's, no. I didn't even have a cell phone in the early 90's. Like, I had a pager.

Cathlene Miner [00:07:47]:
And I remember if it was an emergency and the school would call, you know, you get this beep, beep, beep. And then I would go to the phone and call who it was.

Amber Stitt [00:07:55]:
Okay. So you touched on something that I hope can resonate with people wherever they are in their journey or their path. Because you walk out of your house, you could be meeting people. These could be potentially your community, your clients, your customers, mentors. You could be mentor/mentee. As we go about our day, we might lack purpose sometimes. We're trying to figure out what's our next move, whether it's personal or business. So I guess, don't underestimate what your movements are.

Amber Stitt [00:08:21]:
If you're out there and you're doing some work and collaborating and globally back then, that was probably pretty huge. You probably had to feel pretty excited that, "Does anyone really know that I'm talking to people all over the globe?" I mean, that's huge.

Cathlene Miner [00:08:33]:
It is huge. And I didn't really think it was as huge back then. I think because I was just in life, you know, I was busy. I had four kids at home. The other two were in school. But of course, you're dealing with preteens and babies. And honestly, my day was full. But then when I started looking back, I was like, "Gosh, Cath, like, that was before a lot of people...unless you had a huge corporation, were really doing global work."

Cathlene Miner [00:08:57]:
And I was. And I really just told myself what a good job, what an awesome job. And one of my other jobs that I had and talking about, like, kind of thinking outside the box and, "What do you do when you're in a situation?" was, I used to clean houses on the weekends, so I had to have my job at Mayo. I loved it, but mainly because I had to have health insurance for myself and my kids, right? So by the time I paid for the health insurance, and daycare, and your house, and your car insurance, everything...you really have no money left as a single mom, even though I was working, you know, 50 hours a week. So that's why I got the other jobs, because I am going to make it work.

Cathlene Miner [00:09:37]:
Like this is going to work. A friend of mine and I started a business cleaning houses, and she was about 20 years older than me. She also worked at Mayo. Just such an awesome lady. And she got us some really cool jobs, and a lot of them were for a lot of the doctors at the clinic. And I remember just being there and cleaning. I was so excited to clean these houses. And when I was cleaning, though, I was in my own little world.

Cathlene Miner [00:10:02]:
So I'd be cleaning and imagining that someday somebody's gonna be cleaning for me, so how would I want it done? And I would look out at these amazing views and be like, one day I'm gonna have a view like this. Like, I totally believe in creating your life yourself, by yourself and on purpose. However, I do know it's mindset, but it also takes the go-gettedness to make it work.

Amber Stitt [00:10:28]:
Right.

Cathlene Miner [00:10:28]:
It's not just gonna fall into your lap. You get an idea or you get inspired by something to just go for it. And I remember cleaning this lady's mirror one day. She did this all the time. She would write her reminders in lipstick on the mirror.

Amber Stitt [00:10:41]:
That's an expensive marker.

Cathlene Miner [00:10:44]:
Totally is. Especially when you're the one trying to clean it off of the mirror.

Amber Stitt [00:10:48]:
Oh, gosh, yes. Yes.

Cathlene Miner [00:10:49]:
You can just imagine this stuff smeared everywhere.

Cathlene Miner [00:10:53]:
So I told myself then, as I'm trying to be really happy cleaning this mirror every week, I'm definitely not going to write on my mirror with lipstick because I don't want my cleaners to have to deal with this. So these are, like, the mindset that I put myself in, in a position that I....I mean, I needed this job to clean houses. I had to have this money to be able to support myself and my kids. So in the...Yeah, I mean, I don't even know how long I've had a house cleaner. It could be 30 years at this point. I don't know.

Cathlene Miner [00:11:23]:
Time's flying by. Okay.

Amber Stitt [00:11:24]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:11:24]:
Can't even believe that I turned 52, so I don't even know where time's gone. But I think it puts us in that mindset of whatever it is we have to be doing at that moment. No, we don't have to stay there, but we can look at it in a different way if we have to be there. Kind of like I did with my job at Mayo. I absolutely loved my job. Do I love the politics of any big corporation? No. Who really does? But I really knew that I loved the patients.

Cathlene Miner [00:11:50]:
I love being there with the people every day and tried to always look at that as I went in. And that was when I started to shift my mindset about life in general, to be honest.

Amber Stitt [00:11:59]:
So this is where the glass half full Cathlene is represented. So do you think as you are daydreaming, is this where you started writing your book, in your mind?

Cathlene Miner [00:12:11]:
In my mind, for sure. So when I was training people, I was already starting to work on what I thought about myself because what I started to realize were there were some great things going on in my life. However, I was a newly divorced, young, single mom, and I was like, this is a lot of hard work. And of course, there's a lot of drama that comes along with being divorced, even if it's, you know, that two people just grew apart because you're young, you all mature at different ages. But I felt like certain things weren't going my way. So I started thinking about what I thought about myself because I was thinking really great about a lot of situations and opportunities and other people. But I would look in the mirror and I would only see the things I did not like. It's just what I did, which is common.

Cathlene Miner [00:12:59]:
It is very common. But then I started to realize, and I started to compliment myself in the mirror. I'm not lying. This is what I did. And it sounds crazy, although a lot of people probably do it today. And then I started to realize that, gosh, I even felt better at myself this morning when I woke up than I did yesterday because I started doing that. So what I started doing was, as I was working on it myself, I incorporated it with my clients. And now that I have all these years to look back on, I can see the ones that still continue with it and, or the ones that say, because I had some say to me, "Hey, listen, I don't have any problem with my self perception, so I just want to get my body in shape."

Cathlene Miner [00:13:36]:
And they're the ones that, looking back now that I can look back over all these years, either, never stayed with a routine, still don't take care of themselves. Because your self perception dictates the take, the choices you make, the relationships you stay in and the ones that you leave. And that's professionally and personally.

Amber Stitt [00:13:56]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:13:57]:
And it's reality.

Amber Stitt [00:13:58]:
It's almost like not respecting yourself to the core and trusting yourself.

Cathlene Miner [00:14:03]:
Right.

Amber Stitt [00:14:03]:
Then you don't believe that you can do x, y and z, and that's where those routines can fall off. So there's maybe a pattern you saw.

Cathlene Miner [00:14:09]:
Yeah, absolutely. Because it all comes down to, what do you think. Because so many people and I did the same thing. Whatever somebody else thought about me, I pretty much took it at that value. Like, okay, well, that must be true, then. And, you know, when I was in school, I developed very early. So I was the kind of girl who, in third grade, started my period. I was, you know, fully developed by fifth grade. I was the size I am now in fifth grade. So then I was big for my age, you know, and I'd be made fun of and everything else, although I stopped growing and everybody kept going.

Cathlene Miner [00:14:44]:
But, you know, I was really allowing that to affect the way I thought about myself. Sure, I believe that. And I think there are adults that do that, too. They take on whatever somebody else says about them, and it's really hard not to. But we have to realize that that's only their perception. What really matters is our perception of ourselves.

Amber Stitt [00:15:07]:
And I don't think it ever goes away, because the more leadership, more you give to the world, the more you're known. There's more feedback that's not always positive. And if you're going to put yourself out there, we have to really have some good self talk.

Cathlene Miner [00:15:21]:
Right. And really know what we do think about ourselves. So the first question in the book is, what do you really think and feel about yourself? Because you're right. I mean, and you probably deal with this as well. You get to the point as you get older and people know who you are and whatever circle you're in, that you actually have a smaller circle.

Amber Stitt [00:15:40]:
Yeah. And they're so excited for you. And it doesn't really matter if they understand exactly what your project is.

Cathlene Miner [00:15:47]:
And it's an outside circle that we start to realize that whatever they say really doesn't matter.

Amber Stitt [00:15:54]:
Yeah. So did you have a variation of book 2 for the teenager, more of the younger because of your children, or your story as a child, or both?

Cathlene Miner [00:16:04]:
Well, started with myself, so I know my teenage years, so I ended up with an eating disorder in high school. And that's kind of, again, when I was in my late teens, early twenties, started realizing I gotta start paying attention to what I think about myself. This is really not good for me. So I started to realize, in order to be healthy for the rest of my life, I'm going to have to not compare myself to others. I've got to just worry about what I think of myself. And so that was the base of the teen book. However, as I grew through more children, you know, I mean, my youngest is 18 now. My kids are all out of the house.

Cathlene Miner [00:16:43]:
They're either married, or in college. And we dealt with some things with one of my teenagers that, you know, which we can talk about when we get into why the apps and things like that, but it kind of was a combination of both, but pretty much stemmed from my own personal teenage years. And now with social media, it's just a whole other ballgame.

Amber Stitt [00:17:04]:
So let's go into that. I joked about no kids with a tablet sitting there waiting for you. Recently, we just went out to a restaurant. I did not bring my phone in for my daughter. I just said, here's some coloring, and no problem. I gave it to her, and she was good for an hour and a half at sushi, taking forever for the sushi. And so we can control some of that. But, you know, sometimes we are, because you and I both saw before tech and then the after, and what do we want to do as we're growing virtually and having these global business opportunities, how are you seeing that affecting, you know, social media, children online? Let's kind of go into what you've seen so far from your...

Cathlene Miner [00:17:39]:
So it's really affecting children. And there's good things about social media, but then there are not so good things about social media. How I started becoming more of an advocate, as I always was...But when you go through something, experience really means everything, right? Meaning you just come at things at a different perspective. We all have different perspectives on things because of the things we've been through. So none of my children were able to get cell phones till high school. That was just our rule.

Cathlene Miner [00:18:06]:
And at this point, I still think it's too early, and I'll tell you why. But my older kids, the ones that are 32 and 29, the worst thing we ever had to worry about was, who's texting you at 11:00 p.m. because, again, this was my oldest, graduated high school in 2010. This was a while ago. There weren't the apps. There wasn't...you could barely get the Internet on your phone, you know, but we had a place downstairs at 10:00 p.m. everybody had to have their cell phones plugged in.

Cathlene Miner [00:18:38]:
There were no exceptions ever. And mom's gonna look at your phone. So they already knew I have passwords. I'm gonna look at the phone. It's gonna be random, and I'm just gonna let you know I'm not hiding anything here. So that was known. So then my younger kids come along. They get a cell phone at high school, and for the most part, all kids are different.

Cathlene Miner [00:19:02]:
Right? One of my kids, they didn't really care. We'd have to say, "Is it charged in case you need me?" You know, things like that. And then you have the other ones that are really very involved with the phone. So I'm checking the phones because that's just what I've always done. And at this point, right, I'm still a stay at home mom. We were homeschooling our two younger children. We started doing that when they were in first and second grade for various reasons, which is another thing I never thought I would do.

Cathlene Miner [00:19:31]:
I mean, when my friends found out I was homeschooling the ones that knew me from when I was younger, they were like, "You're doing what?"

Amber Stitt [00:19:36]:
Yeah. Now, I think it's completely... It's looked at differently, but I remember growing up thinking, oh, you know, the typical, oh, it's weird. Now that I can see curriculums and certain things, you can really push it up a notch and really challenge.

Cathlene Miner [00:19:48]:
This was for my 18 and 19 year old, and they're both in college now. They got into college very easily. They had some hard work, meaning that the programs we used, which is a whole other conversation, we made sure everybody was on task. We also had a full time tutor that sat beside them, because it got to a point where I was like, I can't. I don't remember this stuff.

Amber Stitt [00:20:11]:
Oh, yeah, there's even new math now that I...My five year old. I'm like, "Oh, here we go."

Cathlene Miner [00:20:15]:
Yep. We just want an answer, people. But all that being said, I was checking the phones, but I started to realize that something was changing. Something wasn't right. You know, the way that they were behaving, who they were hanging out with, the way they were dressed, all of that. So I was like, okay, I'm missing something here. I am, home. Although they had all extracurriculars...

Amber Stitt [00:20:38]:
Yeah. It's like, right there.

Cathlene Miner [00:20:39]:
I'm like, what am I missing? So, long story short, because it could be a very long story. Well, I started noticing cutting, and I was like, that's something you never think you're going to deal with, so get to counseling. Anyway, that's a whole other story. Because some of that didn't go well and ended up, let's just say, in a hospital stay for a month. This is where this ended up going. And I finally got a hold of that phone and started doing more research. They say a parent is better than the FBI when they're trying to figure something out.

Cathlene Miner [00:21:13]:
So what I noticed and what I found out was that they're smart, which we know. But you can hide apps behind apps.

Amber Stitt [00:21:21]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:21:21]:
So, for instance, if you click on the camera app, it may not be the camera, it might be TikTok, which you told them not to get on or Snapchat or something. So when I'm clicking through and really finding what these things are, I was just. My jaw dropped when I saw what my kid was seeing.

Amber Stitt [00:21:41]:
Seeing. And sometimes what they're saying, it's such an icky feeling that...

Cathlene Miner [00:21:45]:
It was both. And so one thing I think parents have to realize, and this is part of what I'm very passionate about now from just from what we've dealt with and speaking to so many parents as well, you know, we always heard the five people you choose to hang out with, that's the direction you're going in. And it's true. It's true. The thing is, is the five people some of these kids are hanging out with are who they're following on social media, and they don't even know these people.

Amber Stitt [00:22:11]:
Right.

Cathlene Miner [00:22:12]:
And so there's videos of, you know, "If you're feeling down, how do you harm yourself to feel better without your parents knowing?" There's things...I mean, you name it, it's on there. Now, just picture this. A 15 year old something sitting here, talking about they think they know what they're talking about with a messy room in the background. And this is what these kids are seeing, and these are who they're following.

Amber Stitt [00:22:40]:
Yeah. And maybe people even doing it, do they really even have a problem? Are they trying to get views, or both? You know, there could be a twisted...

Cathlene Miner [00:22:47]:
And then you got the 20 somethings who are trying to groom the kids. Listen, I have seen it all at this point. I've talked to so many parents that are dealing with these things. So the other thing is these apps. Did you know that on Instagram and X, which is was Twitter, there's a whole porn area!

Amber Stitt [00:23:05]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:23:06]:
And I don't just mean a little bit. I am talking, like, full on. So when these parents are getting their kids cell phones and just saying, here you go.

Amber Stitt [00:23:17]:
"I trust my kid. It's okay. I don't want to micromanage."

Cathlene Miner [00:23:20]:
Right. They have access to this stuff, and their minds just aren't ready for it yet.

Amber Stitt [00:23:27]:
Right.

Cathlene Miner [00:23:27]:
It's not.

Amber Stitt [00:23:28]:
It's introducing, like, we shouldn't be in the dark web as mature adults. And that's a whole other thing. But this is kind of like a dark web above the dark...

Cathlene Miner [00:23:37]:
Right. They're not ready. They're not ready for this, what they're seeing. And I had a couple parents say to me, of course, as you can imagine, "Well, I don't want to invade my kids privacy," and I have to remind them that, "You know what? They don't need privacy. They need your protection."

Amber Stitt [00:23:51]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:23:51]:
Because a ten year old does not need privacy on their phone. They don't.

Amber Stitt [00:23:57]:
So that's very scary, dark. I was also thinking, too, back to bullying. You talked about kids not understanding. Kids can be mean. I noticed that even just something as what we think is, as a parent, silly as not being tagged in a photo means you're left out of the group. You don't have to physically be hanging out with these people to have these friends, like you're saying, or kids are gaming and having friends all over the world, and there's predators in there, too. Just because you can't literally see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Amber Stitt [00:24:26]:
Just like in our foods or, electronics and the blue light. But just because we don't think that they're hanging out physically with these people does not mean in their head...

Cathlene Miner [00:24:35]:
Right.

Amber Stitt [00:24:35]:
Something else is going on.

Cathlene Miner [00:24:37]:
Absolutely. And they're very vulnerable. We were all vulnerable at those ages, in our preteens, in our teen years, and we just have to be aware. So I'm not here to scare parents. I just think that you don't know what you don't know. And that's true. We don't know what we don't know, at least if we're aware of it.

Cathlene Miner [00:24:53]:
And if something seems to be off and the people that are hanging out with them seem to be okay. I mean, then where else is this influence coming from?

Amber Stitt [00:25:01]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:25:02]:
And we do have to say at some point, well, I think all the time...we took the phone away for a year, literally, the phone was shut off. Phone number gone. Like, you have to. If that's where things are stemming from, you've got to take it away. So I got onto this subject, too, because one of, we've got two tech startups, but...so think about, you know, YouTube, right? How many of the kids either like to put their videos on there of, like, making slime or doing makeup or whatever, and then also the cartoon type things, which is a different thing. But what they're seeing on YouTube, you've got the advertisements and the things that are breaking into the videos that are not kid appropriate. So I'm sure. I know you've uploaded things on YouTube.

Cathlene Miner [00:25:45]:
I know I have, too. The question's very simple. Is it kids content, or is it not?

Amber Stitt [00:25:51]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:25:52]:
Okay. Well, you can click whatever you really feel like, because it's going to let you go through, it's going to let you put video on it. So, you know, what we've created is a place that's going to be verified by the parent and the child. Meaning in order to have an account and to be a creator, the parent has to verify with the child, with I.D., child there. Okay, that's the child on the video. And there's no breakthrough through ads. There's nothing on there.

Cathlene Miner [00:26:21]:
But they can also monetize right away so they can get tips. I don't mean tips like advice, but like money tips. They could charge for a video, they could do it for free. And any kind of messages that come in, go also directly to the parents email.

Amber Stitt [00:26:36]:
I love that.

Cathlene Miner [00:26:37]:
Yeah. Everything we're doing as much as we can because bots can't pick everything up. So we've got a lot of humans on board, and this, this is how it's going to be monitored. And it's something that's not happening these days. Everything's monitored by bots. And the bots are catching things that need to be caught, catching things that don't need to be caught, and then not catching the things because people are smart. Right? Meaning they have workarounds.

Cathlene Miner [00:27:04]:
It's called Tuuzuu T-U-U-Z-U-U. And we want to make it accessible. So even users do have to be verified by a parent. It is a 17 and under site, so, you know, of course a parent can watch a video and things like that. We're going to do as much as we can to protect the kids and everything. That's why the messages will go to the parents email. But it's not just open to anybody to get on. We want the kids that are creative to be able to get on there.

Cathlene Miner [00:27:32]:
And I know my grandkids, they love to watch the videos of people making slime.

Amber Stitt [00:27:36]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:27:37]:
And doing all of these little projects, but they can't watch them unless we're sitting right there with them because we don't know what's gonna go along the side. And it could even be something like my granddaughter before, you know, her mom stopped her from watching this stuff. You know, what popped in was a horror movie, you know, like a horror movie preview. And she was devastated. Cause it was really gory, you know? And this came in the middle of watching slime. So, yeah.

Amber Stitt [00:28:03]:
And I...Even my daughter knows to ask me, can I watch YouTube? And I usually say no. It's almost like the weekend if she gets the tablet, it's a special privilege now to even watch YouTube in my house because there's the tonality, the My Little Pony and some of these things. There's creators that come in and they're doing more of an anime, more crazy, even. Like, the way that the cartoon looks is more evil looking. And they're just slowly creeping that in. And I've seen them with guns in the song, just weird stuff.

Amber Stitt [00:28:32]:
So I can't let her watch that. So this is something that could help any parent, and I'd be interested.

Cathlene Miner [00:28:39]:
So that stemmed from not only the grandkids, but the things I really would like to make social media safer for kids. A lot of it. When they get to be the preteen and the teenage years and they have full access to a cell phone, there's nothing that's going to take the place of the parents checking. Nothing. Even those apps like Bark and the other ones, I've done them, I've used them. The thing is, two things: 1) apps like Snapchat, some of the apps don't give Bark permission. That should tell you something right there.

Amber Stitt [00:29:13]:
I know. Exactly.

Cathlene Miner [00:29:15]:
Bark and some of the others, other apps out there. And the other thing is, is a VPN you put on the kids phone that they shouldn't be able to take off.

Amber Stitt [00:29:23]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:29:24]:
My child took it off right away. She knew how to take it off.

Amber Stitt [00:29:26]:
I see. So you've troubleshooted, you've tried. It's been tested. We need to find another way.

Cathlene Miner [00:29:32]:
And the only thing, like I said, is we're gonna have to check it. They're not gonna like it. But then again, if they don't like it, you also need to put your radar up. It's gotta be like, "Oh, what are they trying to hide from me?"

Amber Stitt [00:29:44]:
Well, you said something interesting, and I'm a big advocate. I know, audience, you've probably heard me say this before about the younger generation. I'm being really hopeful there because there's great minds not waiting for school, traditional school classroom, to learn how to kick up and start business. So with your apps, you're allowing younger people to monetize and create that entrepreneurial spirit. But the parent needs to be the manager.

Cathlene Miner [00:30:06]:
Absolutely, 100%. And so my partner in this and how the other app that's already going, is that she actually runs the largest women's networking group in the world. And so she has six kids, I have four. So between both of us, we got ten kids. With all different ages. We've seen it all. Not really all. I don't think we ever see it all.

Cathlene Miner [00:30:29]:
You'd think I'd ever be surprised, but things, new things come out. So what we'd like to do is to be able to show the kids they have an entrepreneur kind of brain and spirit behind them that you can do this. And your parents still do need to monitor. And that kind of teaches them things, also teaches them about money and percentages and all of these different things on how to run a business. So there was a lot of different things that came in mind when we started putting this together. And then the second one that's already out is actually a social media site mixed in with a monetizing influencer creator site. And this one is, you can kind of think about TuuZuu in a way, for adults, it's not adult content, but it is anything business-wise. It can be podcasts, it can be cooking shows...

Cathlene Miner [00:31:24]:
You name it, it can be on there. Right?

Amber Stitt [00:31:26]:
Okay.

Cathlene Miner [00:31:27]:
And the same thing. People can send you tips, you can charge for your video, you can do it for free, you can have subscription account, any of that stuff. And within that. So it's called ZZatem. Z-Z-A-T-E-M. That is the name of the app. You can also do it on your desktop, but we also within that have something called ZZfanz. And it's Z-Z-F-A-N-Z, because your fans are also your clients,

Cathlene Miner [00:31:52]:
your customers, the people that watch you, they're your fans. You know, it's not just fans of adult content. So you can go in there, and we also have, within the social app, video. You can call video, you can video chat, you can just chat within. And there's no other monetizing site for creators that has that ability. The other thing is you don't have to have a certain amount of followers. So that's one thing when it comes to the business side. That's another reason why I told you about Leona is that she's been working with women in business for so long that we want people to not have to have a certain following in order to start monetizing their stuff.

Cathlene Miner [00:32:31]:
Because the thing is, is the algorithm is just going to keep showing the people over there on those other platforms that are the ones that are getting the most views, but doesn't mean they're making money, and then it leaves out the rest. So our, in the background, our algorithm is everybody gets shown the same, unless you've got a private account, which means that the only people that would see it would be the people you give the link to, which is your own, you know, personal preference when you go to set it up. But we wanted people to be able to monetize right away and be able to share this stuff out. So that is kind of an awesome overview of Zzatem and ZZfanz. And it's going really well. So we hopefully, you go check it out for the podcast. I mean, it's really fun. I'm doing a challenge over there right now.

Cathlene Miner [00:33:17]:
That's not really a challenge, but I think anything's a challenge for anybody. Change it up. "Sane & Strong" is what I call it. Just how do you get through life being sane and strong, which kind of works into the just life in general.

Amber Stitt [00:33:28]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:33:29]:
A lot of this stuff just experience. So that was brought together. And I have to toot our own horn about this, though. So we have one of the highest ranking SEO blog system on there. So, if you put a blog on there, the organic search that you'll get organically because of what we put together is already going to be high. And then we teach people also, how to find your keywords, how to do this. And I'm going to tell you, the views from just plain searches on Google that point to these blogs is unbelievable.

Cathlene Miner [00:34:04]:
So it's all in just helping people take their entrepreneurial spirit and do whatever it is. And even if you're not a blogger.

Amber Stitt [00:34:12]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:34:13]:
I mean, anybody can write three paragraphs about what they're good at, you know what I mean? And sharing it with other people, and it just shows your expertise in things. And I never considered myself a writer either, but I wrote a book. I mean, you know, it's not hard.

Amber Stitt [00:34:26]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:34:26]:
Not hard to do.

Amber Stitt [00:34:27]:
Yeah. And that community that can help promote and give you that confidence you have that, you know, the soul sister, your partner, but you're collaborating with the family element. I like how the superficial part that we've just been programmed with, with algorithms now only rewarding the ones that are just creating content. What about the people that are working but still have content that's valuable, that just can't edit and create? You know, there's a mix of misaligned metrics out there and a lot of very successful people do not have those vanity metrics that are huge. And we don't know if they're fake or not, if they've been paid for. There's a whole thing...So I like that you give everybody the fair shake to get out there and tell their story. And I like how kids can see this could be for free,

Amber Stitt [00:35:08]:
I can get a tip, but they can then decide how much do I want to market for free, just like any other business owner and what's valuable for my time or, you know, do I want to allow for tips, or do I want to give this away? It's really neat that that can be some choices there, but while protecting them, too.

Cathlene Miner [00:35:22]:
Which that's really what started the whole thing, was to have a platform that is somewhat protected because my granddaughter, who's 8, she just has always loved makeup. So she does these tutorial things like she'll put the camera and she, you know, they're really not out anywhere. But we didn't want to put her on YouTube. I mean, she wants to do YouTube, but it just opens up too much of a box.

Amber Stitt [00:35:44]:
It's so neat, though, that I think sometimes we just assume, oh, the kids are going to be a certain way. I think you're leaning in as a grandparent, parent by paying attention and staying hip and got to innovate with them. As we keep going, we're going to live a long time. If we care about longevity and health. Let's participate and really lean into what's happening. So this brings me into talking about your grandmother. She was inspirational to the nonprofit. Now, did some of this founding Hopefull Handbags,

Amber Stitt [00:36:12]:
was this kind of a collaboration of your grandmother's story, but also seeing what's going out there in the world to other people all throughout, you know, being a parent?

Cathlene Miner [00:36:20]:
Yes. So a combination of both. So my grandmother, my mom grew up in a very abusive home, and so my grandfather did not only just abuse my grandmother, but all the children as well. And there was a big, wide range in ages, so my mom was somewhat in the middle. There were eleven kids altogether. Now there's only two left, which is crazy. But my grandmother passed away over 35 years ago from a brain injury. And I just think you can only be hit so many times.

Cathlene Miner [00:36:46]:
And it always stuck with me. So we lived across the street from my grandparents when I was little, and I understood it as I got older, but I didn't understand why my grandmother stayed because she had siblings, mine and my sister's age, and they would come across the street and say, "Debbie, I need you to come over," you know, and so I knew why we lived there after I got older because my mom was there to protect anybody left at home. And so she would run across the street, break up all the chaos. My aunt and uncle, who are literally our ages, would come stand with us. And I always just thought, if my grandmother had a place to go, would she have stayed now? Maybe. Because what I learned is there's not just one reason why people stay, but also back then, right, it wasn't like it was now. You know, the police would show up, and of course, this does happen now, where the survivor is like, "Oh, no, everything's fine." Because they know what the repercussions might be some of the time.

Cathlene Miner [00:37:43]:
And as my mom puts it, they're brainwashed. They're literally brainwashed. So people either go into an abusive relationship with a low self perception, or they come out with one. They always come out with very low self perception. So through my years, I always wondered why people stayed. So in 2016, I went and got certified to be a domestic abuse advocate. Now, as I was raising my kids, I was sort of triggered into, like, different relationships of maybe, you know, parents that my kids went to school with, because my older kids went to traditional private school. And I kind of would always clue in on, that's not a good sign, you know, I guess I just innately knew what I was looking at.

Cathlene Miner [00:38:22]:
And so I wanted a place where we could raise hope for survivors of domestic abuse. So I started collecting handbags because I'd seen that done before with sanitary products and people handing them out on the streets to homeless. And my grandmother always loved her bag, so she would always hold her bag close. And even the times that she would leave or something, you know, with the kids, she always had the bag. Yeah, it was just...She just loved it. So we started collecting once loved handbags. I say we, my mom and I, and then we started filling with necessities to raise hope to these women getting back on their feet.

Cathlene Miner [00:38:57]:
Well, since then, and this was in 2017 when it became an official nonprofit, we do so much more. So we have spread globally, we are in seven different countries that were officially registered, and we're working in others still, and we just stem it from the US and, you know, raise it for them. So what we do is we help survivors and their children to safety, health, well being, and long term sustainability. So our biggest focus when it comes to pillar number one, which is the survivors and their children with this particular modality, is long term sustainability. Because they have to have it. And unfortunately, in the shelters, which we need shelters, we work very closely with shelters, but they've got programs where they don't say, you have to get a job. And unfortunately, what ends up happening is they end up back in the system. So our goal, yeah, you've got to get them long term sustainability.

Cathlene Miner [00:39:52]:
So I've been known to, as they call it, giving people the loving push. So I'm nice about it, we're all nice about it. But there is no other way this is going to work. No other way. You've got to be able to support yourself and your kids. So that is always our long term goal. Now, looking back, we do work on the self perception. So self perception is the base of everything.

Cathlene Miner [00:40:13]:
So the book that I wrote that I was helping other people with is the base of what we do in Hopefull Handbags, because they've got to have a healthy self perception. They have to know that they can do this stuff. And we're their "rah rah" cheerleaders, right? Like, that's what we do. It's a 100% volunteer organization, and it is amazing. So that's pillar number one. Number two is self defense. We're very, very much an advocate of self defense, not even just for the survivors, but for women and children in general. So I first started getting into self defense when I was 20, when I started teaching aerobics.

Cathlene Miner [00:40:49]:
You know, I've been in the fitness thing for over 30 years now. I used to teach kickboxing, and the first time kickboxing was introduced to me was in a self defense way. And I loved it because I was like, I'm retaining this and I'm also learning self defense at the same time. So I've always been a huge advocate of self defense. And so we partnered up. We've got two self defense main instructors. I'm one of those instructors, but the main ones that we have is Gulshen Bano, who runs the UK's only women's self defense business over in the UK.

Cathlene Miner [00:41:25]:
And she's Kav Maga based. And then you have Stinger Robinson, who is a male and he is in the Caribbean and his is more martial arts based, but we basically do it globally. And this is our first year that we're certifying people through strikeback and through I am power mentality. And I know that's a lot to remember, but for our self defense certification, so we are certifying women to teach other women and children self defense. And it's not just the moves. Right. So our goal...You don't want to touch people.

Cathlene Miner [00:41:58]:
Like, you don't want to have contact. You need to have those self awareness tactics, too.

Amber Stitt [00:42:03]:
Okay. I was wondering, so are you giving virtual opportunities, then?

Cathlene Miner [00:42:08]:
We do these for our workshops. However, our certification is in person.

Amber Stitt [00:42:13]:
We've got to fly to it then.

Cathlene Miner [00:42:15]:
Yeah. We have one in the UK and one in Florida this year coming in. But, you know, the thing is, though, is it's these things people don't think about. Oh, my gosh. We do these at some of the colleges and universities. And it is amazing. I mean, the girls, the things that they don't realize. Like this...

Cathlene Miner [00:42:32]:
You're already exposed...

Amber Stitt [00:42:34]:
Can we stop there for a second? That's...I didn't want to interrupt you, but that's what I would say to my stepdaughter. I say leaving Target. Don't...Like any of us, let's just not be down on our phones by ourselves. But even when we have kids in tow, all these bags is just like a simple, pay attention, look around. If you're driving in a car, kind of scan around and see what's going on before it to prevent an accident.

Amber Stitt [00:42:55]:
So this is really risk management, which is in my arena. It's like, how do we proceed with caution and analyze things? So you're helping tell the story of these are the common ways you can prepare to keep yourself in control.

Cathlene Miner [00:43:07]:
Absolutely. You have to. And you have to go with that intuition. Right. Which is the gut instinct. If you're walking out into a parking lot, just like you say, you telling your daughter you're walking out into a parking lot. If she is, and it already doesn't feel right, get back in that store and tell them you need somebody to walk you out. You can't be afraid to do that.

Cathlene Miner [00:43:27]:
It's better to be safe than to be sorry. Especially if you've got bags in your hand, if you've got kids, that's a whole other thing. No more leaving the door open and getting everybody all situated, getting everybody in the car, then deal with your people after the door is locked. Yeah, well, that's one of our big...We advocate for that. That's one of our...Another...We have three different pillars that we do and that we deal with.

Cathlene Miner [00:43:51]:
And the other one is we have a special project. We're on year two of Kenya. We're in the middle of our official Kenya registration for Hopefull Handbags. And what we do is we work with rural Kenya areas, the schools and the children. And we're doing rain harvesting water tanks. So these schools do not have any water. So what they're doing is the kids have to bring the buckets. I say it because they're literally walking with the buckets on the pail and they have to travel.

Cathlene Miner [00:44:19]:
So, you know, for our measurement, it's going to be anywhere from three quarters of a mile to 3 miles to get their water and then they have to bring it to school. Problem is, the lakes are still, right? So they're going to have toxic symptoms in it. Streams aren't really that much better because people throw things in the streams. But what really comes into play, I've learned so much about this. Like I said, things I never thought I would know, because if it's standing water, it's already going to not be clean. But if people typically drink from the same water, their body will usually build up some sort of an immunity to it. And it's not clean, but they're going to probably be fine. But what happens is when everybody's bringing water from different sources, the teacher, the students, and they're drinking this water, then they're getting the waterborne illnesses and they're ending up in the hospital or they're dying because water from different places, they don't have an immunity to those.

Amber Stitt [00:45:15]:
The system's kind of broken if it's all over the place.

Cathlene Miner [00:45:18]:
Yeah. So what we're doing is we raise money per tank. So everything with Hopefull Handbags, any money raised, stays within the community it's raised in, unless it's earmarked for something different. So that's where like a special project would come in. People that are donating to the tanks know they're donating to the tanks. If they're donating to the toilets in these schools, they know that's what they're donating to. So it costs $1,600 US dollars for us to put in a complete water tank. Includes gutters, labor, everything and the base.

Cathlene Miner [00:45:49]:
And these tanks last for 20 years. They're 10,000 liter tanks. They're huge. So what we do is we don't send anybody over from this country to do it. What we do is we have our HH board in Kenya. They work on them, they get other people to work on them. So then we're teaching a trade, we're giving job skills. So all of our survivors have some part of it.

Cathlene Miner [00:46:14]:
They plan it from the beginning until it's installed and working. And then we also have check ins with all these places. So what we're doing is really creating long term sustainability. And not only do the schools get to use these water tanks, but so do the communities. And that's why we're putting such big tanks in. So we've just now started on the toilets and some of them, we still have a list of 40 schools on our list that have no water. So, yeah, that's our nonprofit.

Cathlene Miner [00:46:44]:
It's going to be going on for quite a while.

Amber Stitt [00:46:46]:
I had somebody else tell me in the nonprofit, or let's say international space, that the communities, they're appreciative of US dollars, but they don't want to be handheld and treated like they're a case. If you can give them the dollars to then support like what you're doing, they can do that within their own families and be the business people that they deserve to be, not just always be a charity case, is what I've heard. And so I think that you guys are doing that in itself by allowing them to participate.

Cathlene Miner [00:47:15]:
It's true. And the thing is, is they basically. I mean, and they have a board. I'm on the board. We have some other Americans on the board. We have somebody in the UK on the board for Kenya, but we're like that even with our global nonprofit. Right? We have people from so many different countries because it's good to get a different perspective, and we're all learning from each other.

Amber Stitt [00:47:32]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:47:32]:
So the great thing is, is that they're being paid for their labor, they're being able to support their families, and then they know. And so who needs to learn this trade, or needs to, you know?

Amber Stitt [00:47:43]:
And the kids are seeing this, too.

Cathlene Miner [00:47:44]:
Mm hmm. We even have the kids help. So, when the rocks brought in to the school that we have to fill the base with, and the kids just bring in the rocks, they want to have a part in it. They're so excited. And we've learned over time, like, our first water tank had the tap attached to the tank. We learned we're not doing that again because you don't really want kids near the tank because once it's compromised, the whole thing's done. So we've got tubing now that goes dug in underground, and then they can get it from, you know, 20 yards away, or whatever.

Cathlene Miner [00:48:18]:
So it's just interesting the things we've learned over time, too. But the fact that the communities are doing it themselves makes all the difference. We've actually just had...We've had a couple meetings, but we're more formalized and regular with it now, a women's group. So we find Hopefull Handbags along with moms in business international. And we have a monthly meeting and we're teaching those women trades, how to start a business, which is so different over there than it is here. And also we talk about relationships. We talk about all the things that they weren't really able to talk about before over there because it's a whole culture.

Amber Stitt [00:48:56]:
Oh, yeah, "Invisible Women" in that book, they talk a lot about the safety of the public transportation, or lack thereof. Restrooms. We don't realize they're still not restroom systems in a lot of countries. And then women are subject, women and children are subject to a lot of awful things because of just things not being safe and properly designed from like an infrastructure perspective. So all of this can prevent a lot of traumatic things that can happen to people.

Cathlene Miner [00:49:22]:
It can. And just like I told you in the Caribbean. So Stinger, who is my age, I'm just going to tell you, you look at him and you're like, you can't be over 30. But he is. He's the same age I am. He's been in martial arts now for about probably close to 40 years. He teaches in such a different way, his self defense, because where he's living and where he's from, it's different than where I'm living, or you're living. Right?

Cathlene Miner [00:49:48]:
So we always talk about colors, meaning, okay, you're in, you know, white right now, I'm pretty calm. I'm in my house. I don't even need to be worried. Right? So when you step out your door, you're on yellow. And, you know, you go to these different colors. Well, sometimes when they step out of the door, in part, certain parts of the world, they're already on red. You step out, you're on red, you better be on alert because somebody could be coming at any time.

Amber Stitt [00:50:14]:
Yeah.

Cathlene Miner [00:50:14]:
So that's why we really have such a big, strong feeling in the importance of self defense in that different parts of the world also have different types of self defense. They need to know because people are attacking in different ways.

Amber Stitt [00:50:29]:
Well, you are amazing. We have a lot to link up in the description box because I want, if people can do it all, resonate with a couple things at this point, I want people to have the ability to just have confidence in so many areas and be educated. And I know that you're hitting a number of things in a different way that I am hearing other people do. So I really find it fascinating. And I want to see more from your business lines and your communities. So anything else you want to share before we wrap up today's episode?

Cathlene Miner [00:50:58]:
We've covered so much, but I really appreciate all that you do, too. I've enjoyed listening to your podcast, and I really appreciate absolutely everything that you do. So thank you very much for having me.

Amber Stitt [00:51:09]:
Thanks for being here. Really appreciate it.

Cathlene Miner [00:51:11]:
Thank you.

Amber Stitt [00:51:12]:
Thank you for joining us on this episode of Pathways. For more information about the podcast, books, articles, the blog, and so much more, please visit my website at: www.AmberStitt.com And remember, let's take action today! Thank you for listening!