Focus on Talents: Finding the Evidence of Success Through Pictures with Ashton Rodenhiser

In this episode of The Amber Stitt Show, host Amber Stitt welcomes Ashton Rodenhiser from Mind's Eye Creative.

Ashton shares their journey into the world of graphic facilitation and how their work combines visual tools and group process to create impactful and engaging meetings.

They discuss the importance of visual learning and the power of using pictures to enhance communication and productivity.

Ashton also opens up about their experience as an entrepreneur in the creative industry and the support they have found in their worldwide community of fellow graphic facilitators.

Tune in to gain insights into the world of visual storytelling and how it can transform the way we collaborate and learn.

To learn more about Ashton please use her links:
www.mindseyecreative.ca
https://sketchnote.school

Transcript

Amber [00:00:00]:

Hello and welcome to the Amber Stitt Show. I am your host, Amber Stitt, and today we welcome Ashton Rodenhiser from Mind's Eye Creative. Welcome, Ashton.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:00:09]:

I'm so happy to be here, Amber. Thanks for having me.

Amber [00:00:12]:

I'm so excited to actually officially meet you. And I know the audience will be as well because what you do looks like a lot of fun, and maybe it's not always fun, but I feel like you live in this world of just exciting visual tools, putting color and a pop of life into really anything. And I can appreciate that. Being in insurance planning, I need a lot of pop of color to make that exciting. So how did you get involved with this line of work, the creative line of work that you're in? Because it's different than just, say, graphic design.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:00:43]:

Yeah. So I learned that this thing existed in the world through my work as a facilitator. So I really fell in love with group process and how you can bring people together in a room to have a conversation, to achieve some sort of goal or choose some sort of direction and do it in a way where people can really feel valued and heard and that it's a good use of their time. And I was doing that for a couple of years, and then I heard someone in the facilitation world introduced me into the term of graphic facilitation. But at the time, I had no idea what that was. But I took a one day course, and that was ten years ago.

Amber [00:01:21]:

Okay. I was about to ask you, how did you get started? And, yeah, how did that all work out? So keep going.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:01:28]:

That was ten years ago. And really, as cliche as it sounds, like, the rest was history. After I kind of fell in love with this idea about how you can also bring people together in the same sense with facilitation, but add a visual aspect to it. And because most people think in pictures, and a lot of people consider themselves visual learners, people in the room really love it, how it can as facilitator, you're feeding back in words, and now as a graphic facilitator, you can feed back in pictures.

Amber [00:01:55]:

Communication is something that's been big. We have a co-authorship, a group that we're talking about being an impactful entrepreneur. So not everyone's going to be an entrepreneur or wants to be, but there's this way to communicate. And then somehow, just not too long ago, maybe a decade, people actually go, "Hey, I don't like to learn, always by reading a book." Who would have thought after all this time, we've finally figured out some people need to see, hear, or a combination of things. I'm a visual learner. Or how people remember they can see and write. There's multiple things we can do to absorb and help ourselves remember.

Amber [00:02:30]:

But I feel like with what you're bringing to the table, it brings that joy and that element that it's a little more sticky, but it's communicating with people potentially in their own language, which is really nice because we come from so many different walks of life. And I think that that's what you're really bringing to life, from what I can tell.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:02:45]:

Yeah. I really love being in places and situations where I allow people to feel heard and seen in a way that you just don't normally experience. Right. And sometimes as a joke, when they ask me what I do for a living, I'll kind of say something to the lines of like, "Have you ever been in a meeting that's really boring, that should have just been an email?" Everybody resonates with that.

Amber [00:03:07]:

Let's touch on that productivity that you mentioned. And I picked up on that because I have the main thing and then I have a bunch of other things that have developed because as you go through your experience in life and you become an expert, there's other opportunities that can pop up. And having productive time frames is so key and putting boundaries on your life. And then I had a presentation last week where I work with a lot of physicians and there's physician residents saying, I just want work life balance. Well, maybe you're in the wrong job, but no, I don't know that people say that there is actually that now, but it's creating productive time, blocking or putting boundaries on things. That's, I think, the way to put some guardrails on it. Give me an example of that. Like, you're in this room, you're a facilitator...

Amber [00:03:48]:

How does what you train people to do, or bring, or offer bring that productivity up? Can you give us an example?

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:03:55]:

Yeah. I think the main aspect of it is feeding into our instant gratification, our impatience and our lack of time. Right. So if you can create a visual representation of an eight hour long meeting or a two day meeting or what have you, you can look at that picture and it can take you back to that conversation in an extremely short amount of time. Sure. The flip side of that is taking that meeting, putting it into a report, to be put into a drawer, never to be seen again until the next three years go by. You'd be like, "Oh, yeah, what did we say? We were going to do for the last three years. Did we actually do that thing?" Right?

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:04:37]:

So there's those interesting things that I love about it in so many different ways. And that is one of the things where people can look at it and reflect on it and take you back to it and make it as like an accountability tool.

Amber [00:04:50]:

Sure.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:04:51]:

Where we don't necessarily have the capacity, interest or time to be able to try to go back and remember what is that we had discussed or tried to read a report or keep that report front of mind.

Amber [00:05:03]:

All right. Like a number on an Excel spreadsheet. That's not going to do anything. Kind of like my favorite place could be maybe a bookstore. I love the smell of books. It's like the weirdest smell, but I love it. But there's a part of it where you're walking around looking at the covers of books, and that's kind of like in a meeting place where you have your visuals, there's something that potentially you can remember or for those of you that are old enough and maybe Netflix now thumbnails. But when you would walk around Blockbuster video, I don't know if you had those in Canada, but yes, the movie, you go get some movies, you're looking at the cover of the movie, like which one? But there's some of that, like I said, that's sticky, that's going to be memorable.

Amber [00:05:37]:

So if you are talking about something great or something that's a problem from a workplace perspective, then having the ability to have that available, I think you're right. I think it's going to be able to help to tell the story. And it could maybe take a sense of urgency if there's something that needs to happen with a team, but make it less scary, because sometimes in my world, when I bring up risk or like, "Hey, you could pass away. What's your plan?" People kind of shut down. But I know that HR also tries to bring, they try to bring a better experience versus just clicking buttons through a website. There's got to be a better way because if you can't really see it and picture it in real life, "How is this really applicable to me?" It's really hard to keep it up here unless you're doing it, like literally doing it. So I think that visual can help grouping groups of people really put it into motion.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:06:23]:

Yeah. Especially when you're in the meeting and you can reflect on it. Right. So when you look at the graphic later, you can go, oh, I remember when Joan said this, and then that's how we got to this point. Right. So there's, like, a deeper meaning. Like, you could show it to someone who maybe wasn't there and have a conversation with it. But when you can add in, like, an emotional connection to your learning, that just deepens your understanding and connection to that even further.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:06:47]:

Right. So because it has that ability to add that emotional side into the learning as well, or the conversation.

Amber [00:06:54]:

I have a book that I'm currently reading right now. I forget the author's name, but really looking at storytelling, what you're talking about is telling stories with pictures, and people can link that. And there was a brain science coach that can help you memorize names and other things. There was exercises in a conference last year, and he would literally point to corners of the room and name something silly and say, "Okay, that's going to be X, Y, and Z." But once you picture that spot in the room, you'd remember the word that he told you to remember. So there's that linking, anchoring that's happening, too. Well, that's really neat, but I want to know more about you. So you got into this from working in an organization, and then you added another layer.

Amber [00:07:31]:

I'm always excited to tell people ways that people also transition in business from maybe one thing that you think is your thing. It's exciting to show that you don't always wind up where you are. So can we talk about where do you live and do you work in an office, or is it virtual?

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:07:45]:

Yeah, I think for a lot of people, they have their pre and post COVID story, and I definitely have a little bit of that. But ten years ago, when I was introduced into this work, I really wanted to do it and do it really well. So I sort of left formal facilitation by the wayside so I could really deepen my skill into the graphic element of it. And unfortunately, no one is, like, hiring for those types of positions. I've only ever heard of a handful of large companies over the years that actually have hired people to do this internally. And so by default, everybody who does this kind of work starts a business or is a part of an agency.

Amber [00:08:25]:

You found your path. You said, pathways of peak performance. Okay, it's making sense.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:08:28]:

Yes.

Amber [00:08:29]:

I love this because you created a solution. It was risky, though, I'm sure. Kind of scary.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:08:35]:

Yeah. I think I was always really entrepreneurial, but never really labeled it as such. And it wasn't until I formally started a business that I decided, okay, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to give it my all that I started looking back at patterns in my life and go, oh, yeah, I guess there were things in my life that I did, but I wouldn't have called them entrepreneur skills or vibe at the time. So luckily for me, being an entrepreneur just sort of became really natural to me. And I have, like, my friends kind of pick at me a little bit because they call it my sliding scale of, like, because I'm like the artist on one end and then I'm, like, the serious business person on the other.

Amber [00:09:19]:

(jokingly) "You can do that?"

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:09:20]:

I know, right? It's a shocker. And I always feel like I'm constantly on a day to day basis sliding in between on the scale. Right. Because you can't be only the artist and not have the business skills, and you can't be all business without the creative thing that you're trying to sell. Right. So, yeah, it's like I'm always sliding back and forth between them, and I have to do things during my day. Like, sometimes I'm heads down for a couple of hours doing the creative work, and then, like, a day like today, I was doing a lot of, I was sending contracts, I was checking in on invoices. I was doing more of the business stuff today.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:09:56]:

Right. So I'm always just sort of, like, sliding in between that a little bit. But, yeah, I really wanted to do it, and starting a business was just, like, the most logical step to do.

Amber [00:10:07]:

So your friends tease you a little bit, would you say? Has your core community that you're around now really been supportive, or did you ever have to make a shift to get to people that understood you more when you moved into this world? And I only asked that because sometimes you have to shed people that just don't understand it and kind of just forge ahead, and it can be an interesting transition at times.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:10:27]:

Yeah, I think I really started to like those early days. I started surrounding myself with other entrepreneurs. So even if they didn't quite understand what it was that I did, I was able to talk, like, business things. They didn't care.

Amber [00:10:41]:

They're like, how do we do it? Let's make it happen.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:10:43]:

I certainly have friends and even, like, a lot of my family, still don't quite understand what it is that I do.

Amber [00:10:53]:

I can't even explain that to you.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:10:55]:

Yeah. Like, my dad, at Canadian Thanksgiving this year, he said, "Can you please explain to your uncle what it is that you do for work? Because every time I try to explain it to somebody, they're like, 'and she makes money doing that.'" I think those early days I was more emotionally involved with that and feeling like I need people to understand me. But over time, you just kind of let that go. And the people who need to understand it are your clients and the people that you're working with.

Amber [00:11:22]:

The people who are paying the bills, right?

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:11:25]:

So being able to explain the value and do work, and I have rule, like, I only work with fun, easy going people, right? Like, people that could be my friends, like, people who I like that they're like, awesome people.

Amber [00:11:39]:

Some things get a little more complicated because maybe something's really detailed up to a certain, let's say, product or brand. If that person drives you nuts, it's not going to be fun. And you can't always, like, as a solopreneur, when you first start out, it's kind of like, all right, money's money, but I think a lot of the executive coaches would say, you want referrals from the people that you really care about, and at some point, you just have to say, a couple less contracts, but the quality of life can be better. So I like hearing what you have to say, and I had a feeling like you were in a very unique niche, and I want people to know whatever that is out there. I talk about Elizabeth Gilbert, "Big Magic", like, whatever that crazy idea is that no one understands. If it's really kind of hitting you and it just doesn't go away, it's probably something to really explore and you don't have to know the why at the very beginning. So you saw those little inklings of entrepreneurship, and I appreciate that because I will tell people, when it comes to finances, I always thought, I'll never be a business owner. My father, my brother, uncle, grandfather, all these business owners, they're smarter than me when it comes to math and accounting, there's no way. You hit the nail on the head.

Amber [00:12:42]:

I think earlier by talking about, if you understand business, you can delegate or get an app or hire somebody, like a bookkeeper. Like, in my world, I would say my mother hated balancing a checkbook. It's like, "Well, then why didn't you guys maybe hire through Dad's company another way versus forcing yourself to do some of those things you don't love." As a solopreneur, you kind of have to do, like you said, sliding scale. But if you have the solution, but you're not always proficient in all aspects, that's what a team's for. And maybe you're hiring a contractor, an employer, et cetera. But I also want people to think of, like, if they're an employee, and there is this little idea that's festering. What if it could be their side project? I'd always like to say a side hustle, but, yeah, what if there is a thing you do on the weekends to craft this next thing? Because people need your ideas, especially if you have a solution.

Amber [00:13:28]:

So it's really neat to hear you say that.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:13:30]:

I definitely also really surround myself with people who also do what I do. Right. Like, we're a very small but mighty kind of worldwide community.

Amber [00:13:41]:

You say worldwide? Yeah, because, I mean, Canadian, U.S., where else?

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:13:46]:

It's in every country, I would say. But there's pockets that it's extra popular, like the country of Germany. Don't know why, but there's a ton of people who do this work there. The UK, of course, there's quite a handful of people in Australia, so it's definitely a worldwide community. But I like hanging out and talking to other graphic facilitators or graphic recorders in this space, even though people might think, "Oh, well, they're your competition." And I'm like, "Well, I don't really believe in competition in that sense, because it's so worldwide and people can kind of work anywhere. I'm borderless." Like, a lot of my clients are in the US, even though I'm based in Canada.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:14:28]:

And before COVID I kind of alluded to I have a bit of a pre and post COVID life, but pre COVID, I was traveling all the time, and I would work over in Europe, as well. But people in my industry, they understand certain issues that you're maybe struggling with, right? Whereas another entrepreneur might understand it to a point, but they won't understand the nuance because they don't get all of the stuff behind what it is that you do. So those are the people that I tend to connect with when I need to bounce an idea off other people in my field, and I kind of feel like another cliche for today is like, rising tide lifts all boats. So I feel like as more people experience what it is that we do, it will be more and more in demand, which is we're going to need more and more people anyways. Like, I was actually teaching an in-person workshop on how to do this a few weeks ago, and one of the ladies in the workshop said, she's like, "I don't want to be in competition with you, but is there room for me?" (Are you really sharing your secret with me?), and I'm like an open book. I'll tell people anything, right? Because I know only a handful of people actually do the work, right. Because there is, like, the risk, the fear. There's all of that.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:15:43]:

And I know only a handful of the people that will, I know that they'll be a beautiful contributor to our really special visual community. I'm kind of more on also, like, starting to coach and work with other up and coming graphic facilitators who are starting businesses and doing a little bit of that as well because I see that there's a need for it and people have been asking me about it.

Amber [00:16:06]:

There's a calling that happens. It's really interesting. The speaking circuit that just pops up. Once you are able to share, help, mentor, it can come full circle and become a consulting situation, too. Yeah, they say iron sharpens iron and focus on community is my fifth step. It's really like, at first when I put this together, this framework I have, it would be like, okay, if you're sick, COVID, something like that, sabbatical, maternity leave, you have some other expert to refer to. So it sounds like you would have that. But outside of that need of just like, how do you handle with resilience if there's an issue like an illness? Originally, when I developed this, everyone's pretty scared.

Amber [00:16:45]:

With COVID it's beyond that now. It's that thought leadership. And in my industry and financial services, up until maybe five some years ago, I saw people actually doing study groups together that are in the same business as each other but helping each other. And not all conferences or groups do that, but again, there's so much to go around, and then there's timing, there's time zones, there's certain projects people will take. It's like there's enough business out there, but then there's also the personality. And if you're really jiving with somebody, you might not fit the other person's personality. They're going to maybe go work with somebody else, but that's okay. It's this ever evolving kind of having fun with the whole contract client thing.

Amber [00:17:23]:

So I think like you're saying global. There's really no excuses. I've said this before in my podcast. If you are like an in-person person, make it happen. Go. Get out there. If you're a hybrid, which sounds like you've kind of been that, but more now virtual introverts, there's really no excuse. There are communities that you can pop into and kind of just build whatever network you need for you.

Amber [00:17:44]:

There's so many ways to do it, to share ideas. And I think absolutely the most success comes from people that are teaching and kind of sharing their knowledge, and it helps you with thought leadership and bring probably other ideas, too. So that's really cool that from a leadership perspective, you're seeing how that's blossoming and now it's turning into even more.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:18:01]:

I find there's a lot of folks in my industry we are so used to, and for myself is something I really struggle with for a long time is like hiding behind what I created, right? So something that I've really been challenging myself the last few months is like doing stuff like this and putting my own unique voice out there instead of hiding behind all of the illustrations that I do for people, right. And being more of a face instead of letting my work speak for itself, which I've done for a long time. But it's definitely very scary to do that for sure.

Amber [00:18:39]:

I think that's probably a good place to give a takeaway and to potentially wrap up an episode. And I just wrote about this to submit part of an entry to something. You don't know this about me, Ashton, but I'm part of a group called Women in Insurance and Financial Services (WIFS) and only joined about three years ago. There was a female in there. We were going to a conference and they were doing this nomination where you submit your income. And I said, "Tony, isn't it kind of arrogant to say, here's what I make, and I can stand on stage and get an award?" She goes, "No, men do this all the time. Why are we not telling people?" I mean, you're not really talking about money in this aspect, but celebrate and let yourself shine and not feel weird about it. So I was in this writing, well, finishing with Tony, she was saying, like, other people need to know how successful you are so you can help them get there, too.

Amber [00:19:24]:

And I looked at it differently. Like, if someone goes, "Oh, wow, I've met her and this is what she can accomplish." So there's a little bit of that. But when I was writing about this, it was more along the lines of like, it's almost like downplaying what you're good at. Why are we doing that? It's just this weird thing that just happens, I think, with a lot of us, and I think it goes back to not wanting to be arrogant or prideful. And I remember if you stand with confidence, even as a younger person, I remember having some girls at school give me trouble for that. I kind of bring a lot of energy to a room, so I'm sure I sometimes can overwhelm, but I realize now that later, whatever. I'm an expert in bringing that energy to my clients is important.

Amber [00:20:02]:

Just like you're saying, people need to know that I'm the face behind this. And then now you're being able to speak and present. I think it's like you're saying it's even doing more for you a couple of different ways, more income. But I think what you're saying is there's more value for you, seeing the difference you're making, not to speak for you. Is that accurate?

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:20:20]:

Yeah, I would definitely say that. And add on to it as well is in the beginning when I really wanted to do this work, I called it like looking for the evidence, because you can find evidence whether it's going to work for you, or not. Like, if you will be successful or not, right? So I tried to put myself into as many spaces where I was around other successful people in my industry. And I really tried not to be intimidated and take that feeling of intimidation and turn it into inspiration, right? But like I said, you could certainly also look and surround yourself with people who weren't thriving in the industry and say, that's the evidence and I'm not going to make it because they are not as successful as I might like to be.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:21:03]:

Right. So I have a very tenacious personality in terms of like, when I put my mind to something, I'm going to try to look for the evidence that's possible for me if other people are. And I think that's why it's so important when you say that you're friend Tony and you're having that conversation, that's why it's so important. Because when there's others like me, ten years ago, Ashton looking for the evidence, if there aren't people that are transparent in their success and being able to talk about it, then ten years ago, Ashton wouldn't be able to find that, wouldn't be able to find the evidence, right?

Amber [00:21:38]:

And going back to working on projects or things that maybe your family, the people that are so close to you that just don't get it. If you know ultimately why it's important, it all starts with you. If you know the why behind it, it's okay. If somebody else just doesn't understand or see the need, you know that there's a value that you're bringing in a solution to a problem and so not validating from others. If you're looking for the evidence and you're seeing that it's working within your own work product, I think if you're doing what you love and you know, you're doing what's right. It all just kind of works itself out. And so that's what I think the beauty of the process, especially with entrepreneurship, is seeing some of that blossom, but it can be lonely. I really appreciate you sharing all of this.

Amber [00:22:22]:

And is there anything else you want the audience to know? Because we're going to tell them how to find you in our description box. So is there anywhere we should point them before we wrap up today?

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:22:31]:

Yeah, I guess my business is Mind's Eye Creative consulting and all things visual storytelling and live illustration. So in terms of meetings, and I do a lot of conferences and things like that so if you're looking...

Amber [00:22:44]:

When you say that, are you prepping people for conference or are you in the conference too?

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:22:49]:

Yeah. So mostly I find myself there as an observer illustrator. So if you imagine there's eight or so presentations throughout that day, I'm live illustrating each individual presentation and creating a visual representation of each presentation, which I think is a beautiful thing outside of the meeting space which we talked about earlier. Because at many of these events there's so much information. And I would hope as an organizer, you care about the learning that's coming out. And as a presenter, you want people to apply all of your wisdom and all your experience, but you can't do that if you don't remember it. And we tend to forget things extremely quickly after these types of events. So it's beautiful to be able to take all of that wisdom and create this visual snapshot of that so you can take that into your work and life.

Amber [00:23:39]:

Thanks for sharing that because I can't wait for being able to share this on social because of all the conferences I do go to each year, there could be some definite value in having you being introduced to those organizations. So can't wait to be able to pull that connection and be the connector there. So thanks again for being on the show, and you're welcome. I think there's some really good takeaways, you guys, with just looking at having some patience, even though we know people are in general impatient, which is why what you do is important. But like, from a business perspective, just listening to what you're really being called to do and take the risks or wait and build that community and then see when it's safe to go do. So thanks so much for sharing.

Ashton Rodenhiser [00:24:20]:

Thanks.

Amber [00:24:20]:

It's been great to have you today. Yeah, thanks again. Thank you.

Amber [00:24:28]:

Thank you for joining us on today's episode of The Amber Stitt Show.

Amber [00:24:30]:

For more information about the podcast, books, articles, and more, please visit me at www.AmberStitt.com. Until next week, enjoy your journey at home and at work. Thank you for listening!